From Behind the Holster, the Concealed Coalition podcast. Hosted by Jody Picou, with Austin Davis, Concealed Coalition’s National Director of Training.
A red dot sight can make a concealed carry handgun more precise at distance, easier to use with aging eyes, and a better teacher of your own grip. It can also leave you hunting for an aiming point at the worst possible moment. In this episode of Behind the Holster, Jody Picou and Austin Davis work through when a dot earns its place on a carry gun and what it takes to run one well. Concealed Coalition YouTube channel members watch every episode first.
Show Notes
- 0:00 Introduction
- 1:47 What problem are you trying to solve?
- 3:10 Why a red dot on a shotgun or rifle
- 3:52 Presentation, finding the dot and aging eyes
- 5:03 When a red dot actually helps
- 5:49 Specialized gear needs specialized training
- 7:09 2 MOA dot vs front sight
- 7:26 What instructors see in concealed carry classes
- 9:32 What your dot reveals about your grip
- 10:39 Why qualification is the lowest bar
- 12:08 Training vs practice
- 12:56 Education vs training
- 14:23 How memory works under stress
- 15:41 Where good education comes from
- 16:52 Motor skills vs decision-making
- 18:33 Draw speed vs decision speed
Show Links
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What problem is a red dot supposed to solve?
Austin’s rule for any piece of equipment is to start with the problem, not the product. If you carry a defensive firearm, the problem is someone using an illegal use of force against you or someone you are responsible for protecting. The next question is what that encounter is likely to look like.
He separates carriers into two groups. People who get away from trouble, like most private citizens, are likely to face a threat within conversational distance, sometimes within grabbing distance. A small revolver may solve that problem well. People who go to trouble, like church security team members or anyone responsible for protecting others at work, may need to make a longer shot with more awareness of what is downrange. For that group a dot can make sense.
What doesn’t make sense is buying a dot because it looks like an upgrade. Austin compares it to a guitar: the best guitar in the world won’t make a beginner play like Eric Clapton, and Clapton can make a cheap one sound great. The skill comes before the equipment.
How much more precise is a red dot than iron sights?
By Austin’s numbers, the front sight on most handguns covers roughly 20 minutes of angle, which is about 20 inches at 100 yards. A 2 MOA dot covers about 2 inches at the same distance. That difference can double or triple the distance at which a shooter can reliably keep hits inside an 8-inch circle.
Austin isn’t convinced a dot helps much inside about five yards, where he considers it a wash. The case for a dot is distance. Look down the main aisle of a large grocery store, or a long hallway, and a 75 to 80 yard shot stops sounding theoretical. With a short-barreled revolver that shot is not realistic. With a dot, barrel length and sight radius matter far less, because the dot removes the need to align a front and rear sight.
Why do red dots help older shooters?
Austin explains that the ciliary muscle that changes the focus of the eye weakens with age, and shifting focus between a target and a front sight gets harder. With a dot, he keeps his eyes on what he needs to see and superimposes the dot on it. It is the same reason he runs a dot on his patrol shotgun and rifle: he wants his focus on the threat, not on the sights.
Why do so many shooters struggle to find the dot?
A dot only appears where you expect it if the gun is presented the same way every time. On a rifle, four points of contact put the dot in a predictable spot. On a pistol, a sloppy presentation means searching for the dot, and that is where problems begin.
Jody sees this regularly at state qualifications. Many newer pistols are sold with an optic for a modest price difference, and students buy them for the cool factor without practicing. Some hand him the gun saying the dot isn’t working; he picks it up and the dot is right there. If you can’t find the dot under the calm conditions of a qualification, you will struggle far more in a real defensive situation. As Austin puts it, a dot you can’t find leaves you with a gun without sights.
What does a moving dot tell you about your grip?
The dot is unforgiving of poor technique, and that makes it a useful diagnostic tool. A dot that tracks straight up and down in recoil means even pressure on the gun. A dot that jumps sideways or diagonally shows inconsistent grip pressure. Shooters who complain that the dot moves too much are often seeing movement that was always there with iron sights, now made visible.
Austin also points out that many shooters only practice with a dot from one standing position. Shooting seated, around a corner or from behind cover changes the plane of orientation, and finding the dot becomes a new problem if it was never practiced.
Is a red dot worth it without training?
A red dot is a specialized piece of equipment. It needs specialized mounting, specialized training and ongoing maintenance, and it is not a set-it-and-forget-it upgrade. If you aren’t ready to invest that time, Austin would rather see you skip the dot and mount, buy a case of ammunition and take a two or three day high-volume class.
The reason is that a regular range session rarely pushes you fast enough to find where your skills fall apart. A controlled, high-volume course lets you find your limits safely, with iron sights or a dot. Jody adds that most state qualifications are untimed and shot one round at a time, which is not realistic red dot training. If you are ready to train, you can find a concealed carry class near you.
What is the difference between practice, training and education?
Austin defines practice as shooting something you already have some mastery of. Training introduces a new stimulus and a new response: a new shooting position, speed, distance or number of targets. Practice maintains skills. Training builds new ones and shows you where your limits are.
Memory is the reason it matters. Austin explains that short-term memory holds roughly five to seven new pieces of information at a time, and that after a night of sleep the brain sorts what it learned into declarative memory (facts you have to think about) and procedural memory (actions you perform without thinking). Under stress you can’t rely on recalling facts; the skills need to be procedural, which takes repetition. He considers realistic scenario training with safe guns the best place to build them.
Jody and Austin also disagree, productively. Jody likes to arrive at a class already educated on the topic. Austin wants students to arrive at a red dot class without having looked through the dot, so there are no bad habits to undo. They meet in the middle: for a motor skill like shooting a red dot pistol, arrive as a new learner; for decision-making, like recognizing whether a threat is immediate and whether force is justified, arrive with that knowledge already in place. As Jody puts it, a half-second draw doesn’t help if it takes 30 seconds to decide to draw.
Frequently Asked Questions
Do I need a red dot on my concealed carry gun?
Not necessarily. Start by asking what problem you are trying to solve. If your most likely threat is at conversational distance and you plan to get away from trouble, iron sights or a small revolver may serve you well. If you may need to make longer shots, for example on a church security team, a red dot can make sense, as long as you train with it.
Is a red dot more accurate than iron sights?
A red dot offers a more precise aiming point. The front sight on most handguns covers roughly 20 minutes of angle, about 20 inches at 100 yards, while a 2 MOA dot covers about 2 inches. Inside about five yards, the difference in practical accuracy is small.
Do red dots help shooters with aging eyes?
Often, yes. As people age, the eye has a harder time shifting focus between a target and a front sight. A red dot lets the shooter keep focus on the target and place the dot over it, without refocusing on the sights.
Why can’t I find my red dot when I draw?
Usually because the presentation is inconsistent. A red dot appears where you expect it only if the gun comes up the same way every time. Dry fire and live fire practice focused on a consistent presentation, ideally under a trainer’s guidance, is the fix.
What does it mean when my red dot moves sideways when I shoot?
A dot that jumps sideways or diagonally in recoil usually indicates uneven grip pressure. With a consistent grip, the dot should track straight up and down. The dot is showing a technique problem that also exists with iron sights.
Do I need a class to shoot a red dot pistol?
A red dot is a specialized piece of equipment that needs proper mounting, training and maintenance. A class teaches a consistent presentation and lets you find your limits in a controlled setting. Without that, a dot can make defensive shooting harder rather than easier.
What is the difference between practice and training?
Practice is repeating a skill you already have some mastery of. Training introduces new conditions, such as a different position, speed, distance or number of targets, so you learn new skills and discover where your performance breaks down.
Conclusion
Do you need a red dot sight for concealed carry? Only if it solves a problem you actually have and you are willing to train with it. A dot offers a far more precise aiming point, helps aging eyes and exposes grip problems, but it demands a consistent presentation, proper mounting and regular maintenance. If you mostly expect a close-range encounter you would rather escape, iron sights may be enough. If you may need to make longer shots, a dot can be worth it, as long as training comes first.
The deeper dive on red dot types, price ranges and how to choose one is in the members-only episode, available to Concealed Coalition YouTube channel members for as little as $3.99/month. You can also find concealed carry training near you or pick up range gear and essentials in the store.
Full Transcript
Read the full transcript
0:00 Introduction
Jody (0:23): What’s up y’all and welcome to another episode of Behind the Holster. It’s the Concealed Coalition podcast. I’m your host, Jody Picou, and I’ve got Mr. Austin Davis, our national director of training with us again today. And today’s topic is something that I am going to tell you, I am so happy to be talking about this. One of the reasons is because I am not very educated on this topic. And I know Austin, you are very educated on. As a matter of fact, me and you spent probably an hour and a half at your house not too long ago kind of walking through some of these things.
Jody (1:01): And so, while I learned a lot from it, I’m going to say I learned a lot more than I thought I would because at first I was kind of under the impression that you really don’t need a training for this type of device. Come to find out after an hour and a half, I probably need an additional 10 to 12 hours of education on it, but also utilizing it at a range or practicing. We’re going to say, do you need a red dot or not is the question, Austin, so why don’t you take us through a little bit about a red dot?
Jody (1:38): Like what advantage, disadvantage? What are your thoughts on it?
1:47 What problem are you trying to solve?
Austin (1:47): First off, the one question you want to ask yourself with any piece of equipment you’re going to get is, “What problem am I trying to solve?” So, if you’re carrying a defensive firearm, you’re saying, “I’m trying to solve a problem of someone using an illegal use of force against me or someone I’m responsible for protecting.” Great. Once it comes down to that, then, are you just trying to be the cool kid on the side at the show, or you just trying to get a piece of equipment because you think that it somehow will enhance your shooting?
Austin (2:11): It’s a little like a guitar. Okay.
Jody (2:15): Okay.
Austin (2:16): I don’t know how to play the guitar. So, you gave me the world’s best guitar. I’m not Eric Clapton, but Eric Clapton can go into Walmart and get a $99 special and do a concert. The problem with a dot is you need to ask yourself, are you one of two types of people? See, some people are go to trouble people. Some people are get away from trouble people. So, for example, my wife, she is a get away from trouble people. So, if she has a small revolver, this is going to solve her problem because she’s not have to go to trouble.
Austin (2:40): Her problem is going to be within conversational distance, almost within grabbing distance. So, she go to But if you’re in a church security team, if you’re in a situation you got to protect people at work, you need to make a longer shot. You need to have more downrange awareness to make that shot, then a dot may make sense. If you just think you buy it, put it on, stick it next to your bedside, and go to sleep or put in your gear and go to work, things could be tough.
Austin (3:06): Now, the problem with the dot is people go, “Well, it’s no big deal.”
3:10 Why a red dot on a shotgun or rifle
Austin (3:10): But I have a dot on my shotgun. This is my work gun, my patrol shotgun. People are going, “Why do you have a dot on your shotgun?” I have a dot on my shotgun because I’m responsible for every pellet that leaves this platform, and I want to be able to keep my focus on the thing that’s threatening to me, not have to draw it back into the front sight, the rear peep sight, and figure it out. Same thing with my work rifle.
Austin (3:33): And the problem is when you think about using a dot on a rifle, I have basically four points of contact. I have my front hand, I have my control hand, my firing hand, I have my stock, and I have my cheek contact. So every time I pull this up, the dot is going to be in a predictable spot. The problem is when you decide that you need to bring a red dot into your life, I need to present this firearm in a very predictable narrow area of presentation.
3:52 Presentation, finding the dot and aging eyes
Austin (4:00): So, if you have a sloppy presentation, you end up trying to find the dot and this works really bad. Or some people say, “I don’t need a class because I’ll just use my iron sights like I always do and then pick the dot of secondary.” We use the dot so that we can absorb more information from downrange where we’re concerned and not the platform and go back and forth. This also gets more important if you get to a certain age in life. I’m almost 63 years of age.
Austin (4:27): My eyes do not like looking at something and then coming back looking something coming back. The ciliary muscle that opens and closes and controls the aperture in my eye and the lens is getting harder and that muscle gets weaker. So as we get older it becomes harder to pick up the front sight where for me I just look at what I want superimpose the dot and away to go. But if you don’t train with this thing and you have to hunt the dot or use some sort of goofy situation of using your iron sights and trying to use your dot really causes a problem.
Austin (4:58): I don’t I’m not convinced that a dot is really helpful within about five yards in.
5:03 When a red dot actually helps
Austin (5:07): I think it’s a it’s a wash. But if you say to yourself, you know, if I’m in a if you’re in a grocery store, a really large grocery store, next time look at how long that aisle is. And if you’re the person who says, “If there’s an active killer in here, I need to make a shot in a 75 80 yards and you’ve got a Ruger LCR J-Frame Snubby.” That ain’t happening. But the great thing is it doesn’t really matter how long your barrel is anymore with a dot because of the sight radius doesn’t really matter.
Austin (5:32): This dot negates it. My mom was in assisted living and I measured off one of the hallways once. It was 75 yards. So, if there was a problem there and I’m a go-to, I got to solve the problem, that piece of equipment is there. But, it’s a specialized piece of equipment.
5:49 Specialized gear needs specialized training
Austin (5:49): It takes specialized mounting. It takes specialized training, and it takes some maintenance issues that we can go into later on because it’s not a set it and forget it. So, if you’re not a kind of person who wants to invest in time and training and seeking out expertise and someone for a dot, this may just make your life more complicated. I’d rather see some people instead of getting a dot and a mount, buy a case of ammo and go to a class. If you’ve never been to a two or three day high volume class where you to run and see where the wheels start coming off.
Austin (6:18): See, the problem is when you go to a regular range, you know, in a well controlled environment and go bang bang bang. We never can go fast enough to find out where the things start falling apart. And so I want you to be in a controlled environment, whether it’s with iron sights or a red dot, where you can run this whole thing as fast as you can to find out where you go. Hey, I can’t go any faster than this because I start losing control or I only can shoot I like think of an 8 inch circle and I can only that’s called my zone and I need to know where that zone is.
Austin (6:53): If I’m shooting just a regular Glock 19 for example, I have a certain zone where I know that I own that 8 inch circle. Tired, not paying attention, whatever. I own it. With that dot, it may double or triple the distance.
7:09 2 MOA dot vs front sight
Austin (7:09): The front sight on most guns is about maybe 20 in minute of angle, which means at 100 yards is 20 in wide. This is a 2 MOA dot. At 100 yards, it’s a 2in dot. So it gives me a lot more precision aiming point.
7:26 What instructors see in concealed carry classes
Jody (7:26): Yeah. I think the biggest thing I see with red dots when people bring them to class concealed carry classes and we’re going to the state qualification and people bring the red dots. I think a lot of what I find is that a lot of new newer model firearms, you can buy the firearm by itself with the iron sights or you can upgrade a little bit more and get the red dot sight. And so when you look at it from kind of what you mentioned, the cool factor, it fits, right?
Jody (7:51): It fits that cool factor of like, oh yeah, I want a red dot. And typically, they make them price-wise to where it’s almost kind of like, well, I can spend a little bit more and have a firearm, but also have the cool factor of the red dot. And the way that I typically know people haven’t practiced with it very much is exactly what you did, and that’s finding that dot. And I’ve actually had them say, “Hey, my dot’s not working.” And I pick it up and there it is.
Jody (8:22): And I give it back to them like, “No, it’s working. Go ahead.” And they and they and they can’t find it, right? Because once you start moving it, that thing will fly all over the place and they’ll swear that it’s not on but it but holding it, you know, properly and with your side alignment there. And so it becomes that’s where I know like, okay, you bought this, but you haven’t really trained with it. And I could not imagine, it scares me to think of a self-defense situation that you get in when you’re on a range.
Jody (9:01): I’m going to steal your saying in a well-lit, well-controlled environment, shooting at a paper target that’s not shooting back at you. And then now doesn’t move and now you’re in a situation that is life or death and you’re trying to find a red a red dot. It just doesn’t work. It can’t happen.
Austin (9:19): It’s almost like if it’s almost like people who do that, you would ask them, “Would you ever carry a firearm that didn’t have any sights on it at all?” Oh, of course not. I got to be responsible. Well, if you can’t find this dot, you essentially have a gun without sights.
9:32 What your dot reveals about your grip
Austin (9:32): And it’s not just finding the sight in the first shot. It’s if you have to take more than one shot, being able to control it. And a lot of people where they really make a mistake with the dot is they always tell me, “Well, I don’t like the dot. It moves around too much. It moved around the same amount you had of the metal sight.” This is just precise size picture. Also, when they shoot, it goes jumps all around. That tells me you have inconsistent pressure on the gun.
Austin (9:54): My dots tracking straight up and down. If my dot’s tracking this way or this way or this way in recoil, I know that I don’t have equal pressure on the gun and good control on it. So, the dot is very unforgiving for poor technique. It’s also a great tool for diagnosis of poor technique and it gives you instant feedback shot from shot of whether or not you have good grip and good fundamental control on it. Also, the problem with the dot is a lot of people only practice with it in a certain platform.
Austin (10:24): But if I’m sitting down, if I’m trying to shoot around a corner, I’m trying to behind cover, you may find that finding this dot becomes a whole new problem because you never worked with it in that in that plane of orientation.
10:39 Why qualification is the lowest bar
Austin (10:39): Yeah. I think too a problem that I’ve seen with them coming from concealed carry classes. And again, it’s not a shooting course. It’s a qualification that a state requires in order to give you a sheet of paper that allows you to apply for a permit. and it’s the lowest level of competence they have to demonstrate. So if you can’t get it here, it’s not getting easier. And remember, it is the it is the most controlled environment possible. Whereas a real world defensive gun use is uncontrolled.
Austin (11:00): You know which way to point the gun. You know where the boundaries are here and there. You know that you do have to shoot that target that he didn’t drop the gun, throw his hands up, and you still shot him. So there’s the lowest cognitive behavior we can have. And if they can’t produce it there, it will not get any better under dynamic situation.
Jody (11:18): Yeah. And like you said, that follow-up shot. This is why I think the class is so important because what we see in concealed carry classes where we’re shooting at a paper target and it’s typically Texas has a timed course, but most states don’t have a timed course of fire that you go through. And so it’s one shot and one shot and then we’re looking, right? And so for them, it’s time to then find that dot again. Okay, shoot. I’m gonna look and see where I shot.
Jody (11:49): And then so without having that additional training, that’s not realistic training with a red dot. Nor do I believe just going to a range and shooting. Although, however, I do highly recommend it. I don’t think that’s proper training with a red dot.
12:08 Training vs practice
Austin (12:08): But let’s run it here. What’s the difference between training and practice? Practice is when you go to a range and you shoot something that you already have a mastery or some level of mastery. Training is when you have different stimulus, different response. So training is about going, hey, I’m going to find a new parameter to perform in. Whether that’s unique shooting position, unique shooting speed, unique shooting distances, unique shooting multiple targets. And that is where you learn new skills and try to find out where your limits are in that.
Austin (12:35): That’s different than practice. We go to range to practice, but training is about learning new skills, adapting them, and finding out where your performance in that envelope.
Jody (12:45): And I’m going to piggyback off of I’ve said I’ve learned a lot from you, so I’m going to piggyback off of you of what I’ve learned and what I preach to people. There’s a difference in practice, education, and training.
12:56 Education vs training
Jody (12:56): Education and training are completely different. and information like Concealed Coalition University that we have available. That is a ton of education that you begin to absorb to then go out and implement the training. I don’t know about you, but I hate showing up for a class and being the person who knows the least walking into that class. I like to be educated on the matter. So, they don’t want to walk into a training class. If I’m going to a red dot training class, I want to know as much information or education as I can prior to walking in and actually utilizing it.
Jody (13:29): I have 180 degree different opinion.
Austin (13:34): All right. I want you coming into this class not ever having looked through the damn dot because if you come in and go, “Hey, I’m going to learn as much as I can before I come to class.” I’ve got to spend a whole bunch of time remyelinizing taking those neurons which are now wired together and fired together and put them in the correct order. So for me, I don’t want you to even look through the dot till you come to class. Matter of fact, you’ll shoot a lot in my school before I even take the tape off of the masking tape off the front of your dot because it’s so easy to pick up the bad habit of looking through the dot at your target instead of using your non-dominant eye to get it.
Austin (14:08): So yeah, and when you talk about training and practice, where’s the best place to train? For me, it is a virtual reality situation. As you and I have noticed, people who are very confident on the range, we put them in there. How many times have you seen this? And their whole their whole world falls down.
14:23 How memory works under stress
Austin (14:23): I’m going to do a real quick technical talk here. There’s three kinds of memory we have. We have short-term memory. Stuff goes in your ear. The reason there’s only seven digits on a phone number is we can really only hold about five to seven pieces of novel information at one time. That’s why there’s only seven digits. The problem is if you try to give them too much information in an educational day and it’s more than about seven topics, they start overwriting this thing and it becomes kind of mushy.
Austin (14:45): When you get 24 hours after that night of REM sleep, your brain can sort of sort this out. It’ll put it in two categories. One is declarative and one is procedural. Declarative is a piece of information where if you think, “Wow, to shoot him, if is this competent with castle doctrine, if you have to think about that under stress, you don’t get to recall that. We need that in procedural memory.” The stuff that works. Procedural memory is when you’re driving down the road and you go, “Did I lock the door?”
Austin (15:12): Yes, you locked the door. You know, you locked the door, but you did it without thinking. It is a procedural memory. You have to put no process into it. So, I need to find a way to train you to explore your distance of where your wheels are going to come off the wagon of performance in a safe way. And for me, that is in a realistic environment with realistic actors on a realistic size screen with safe guns so you can afford to make mistakes and no one gets hurt.
Jody (15:38): Yeah. Let me 180 this train with a red dot.
15:41 Where good education comes from
Austin (15:41): Let me 180 your 180. Can I 180 your 180?
Jody (15:44): Love it.
Austin (15:45): Here’s what I think. I think it depends on where your education comes from. If my assumption, okay, for this, we’ve got people in this channel, is that they’re all a part of Concealed Coalition University. If you’re not, go to concealedcoalition.com, join now, go check out the videos. To me, that’s where I reference education because not all education is good education. And we see this in concealed carry classes where people come in who’ve taken a class before who then try and tell us things that other instructors have told them that in the law portion maybe some things true back then but not current and relevant in today’s world or even practices that other instructors recommended 20 years ago.
Austin (16:26): There are different practices that we have today that we feel like are safer. So we’re ever evolving. So to me, if I was going to go take a red dot class, I would go get my education or a pepper spray class. Also, I would go watch the episode in Concealed Coalition University. I would get all of that knowledge prior to stepping into a pepper spray class. Now, let’s take your 180 and my 180 and let’s put it in a 90 degree, but we can both agree on.
16:52 Motor skills vs decision-making
Austin (16:52): If I’m trying to learn a motor skill, if I’m trying to learn to shoot a red dot handgun or hit a golf ball or hit a baseball or ride a bike, that is something where I want to come in completely as a as a new learner. If I’m going to a situation where I’m going to go to Virtual Tactical Academy and I know that I’ve got to go ahead and recognize and react to the situation, 100% on that process, the CCU stuff is invaluable.
Austin (17:21): if I need to use a verbal command, having that base knowledge is there. But if I’m teaching you a kinesthetic skill set, like again, shooting a red dot pistol, riding a bike, hitting a golf ball, that stuff I want you coming in bear down, but that is separate from you shooting a red dot and knowing whether this is a threat or threatening, whether it’s immediate, innocence, reasonable, avoidable, preventable, all those other things. I need all that preloaded and set up in your head. So, we put the mechanical thing.
Austin (17:51): Shooting the gun is the easy part. Okay. Oh my god, I can’t believe you just said that. It’s really it’s get a good grip. It’s make sure you have the proper sighting alignment and pulling the trigger in a way that doesn’t upset the first two. And the beauty of that is it’s self diagnostic. The problem is when I have to put everything else in that. So, when you have to start putting the mental process, is it still a threat? Has the threat gone away? Is this threat reduced?
Austin (18:15): Did my first shot make the difference? Is the second shot homicide? Does it need more? So, when you start loading in these things, they all have to be done in a procedural memory. We’ve got to we got to rep this stuff. But you’re right, we have to have a baseline, but we got to separate the difference between the mental game of being safe and the physical game of running a tool.
18:33 Draw speed vs decision speed
Jody (18:33): Yeah. One of the one of my favorite things that I always use from you in class is if you go home and you practice your draw and you’re practicing clearing garment and drawing and you get it down to a second, half a second where you can draw, none of that matters if it takes you 30 seconds to make a decision to draw. And so that’s where the importance of the education part comes in. But to end this, we’re going to go into more detail on red dot or not.
Jody (18:58): Even some suggestions, different types. I mean there’s we can go all over the map when it comes to pricing. Do you want to be the cool kid? Do you want to have the practical tool? And how to use it and how important those classes are. So, check out our membership. Click the link below. We’re going to go into more detail on this and give you all the information you need. Is it red dot or is it not? And like we say at Concealed Coalition, be a guardian always.
Austin (19:26): And a warrior when needed.
